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NAS för 1gbit koppling

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NAS för 1gbit koppling

Jag har ingen erfarenhet med NAS förut och vill ha följande:

  • Skrivas 100 Mbytes/s samtidigt kunna läsa eller ladda ner ungefär 90 Mbytes/s

  • Torrent klient på NAS som kan laddas ner utan disk overload problem. Internet koppling är 1GBit.

  • Kommer acessa NAS från HTPC för att se på filmerna. Ej Transcoding!

  • Redundancy

Än så länge har jag dem här krav. Vet ni vilken NAS med HDD kan fyllas det här krav?

EDIT: 14TB HDD storlek och pris <15000 kr

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Svårt att ge exakt modell när du inte säger hur många diskar du tänkt dig använda eller total storlek på data, alt. diskredundans (läs inte backup)

Jag kör med Synology DS1513 som jag nyligen köpte från Inet, uppgraderade från DS712+ och innan det DS411J.
Kanonnöjd med Synology's grejer och betalar gärna lite extra för alla de lösningar de har.

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Jaaa du... Vet inte riktigt hur prestandan blir men någon form av raid måste du köra om du ska kunna läsa och skriva i höga hastigheter samtidigt. Eller köra med ssd'er helt enkelt.

Det skulle dock fungera rätt bra om det är två olika hårddiskar, den ena läser något och den andra skriver något. Dock så kommer det mest troligt ändå inte ge full hastighet vid torrent trafik. Eftersom de är så många små filer som kommer i en konstig ordning så hänger inte hårddiskar med allt för lätt.
Det är väldigt mycket snabbare att kopiera fil X från hårddisk A till hårddisk B än det är att ladda ned den via en torrent klient.

Det kommer bli en väldigt biffig nas med kraven av höga överföringshastigheter samtidigt som du ska ladda ned i full hastighet.

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Antar att du är med på att du får köra link-aggregation för att fixa 100MB/s åt båda hållen samtidigt? Tveksamt om diskarna klarar det dock, antagligen får du köra på någon form av RAID0-historia, minst 4 diskar om du samtidigt vill ha redundans, alternativt även SSD. Någon annan mer kunnig om området får gärna inflika.

Vad menar du med "torrentklient på UPS"?

Krävs en hel del av maskineriet för att få ut 100MB/s vid torrents, ytterst tveksam till om någon vanlig konsumet-NAS klarar det med tanke på avsaknad trötta CPU'er och ram-cache. Föreslår nog ett hemmabygge med en quad-core och ett par GB RAM för cache eller liknande.

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Kan varmt rekommendera Asustor AS602T finns för olika diskantal. Snabb tyst och har även hdmi ut så du kan köra inbyggda xbmc direkt till din tv. Sök på den så får du se.

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Ladda ner till en SSD och sen flytta över till raid när nerladdningen är färdig. Detta går ställa in i alla bra torrentprogram. På detta sättet skonar du diskarna och behöver endast bry dig om bra läshastighet från din raid.

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Jag ser ner på folk som särskriver!

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Skrivet av ozric:

Ladda ner till en SSD och sen flytta över till raid när nerladdningen är färdig. Detta går ställa in i alla bra torrentprogram. På detta sättet skonar du diskarna och behöver endast bry dig om bra läshastighet från din raid.

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+1 på den. Låter vettigt.

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DS1513+ med 5 x SSD raid, med två DX513 som varav den ena speglar den andra.
Eller så bygger du ihop en vanlig dator med hårdvarustöd för kryptering, vilket du lär behöva att dömma av din kravlista.

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Förlåt. Jag menade NAS, inte UPS (har fixat det nu).

Jag behöver ungefär 14 TB så SSD kommer inte funka för mig.

Kan jag använda SD1513+ 4xWD red 4TB och 1x512GB Samsung 540 pro (som cache för torrents)?

Jag har tänkt att använda Link aggregation 2st.

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Nej, då har du inte förstått hur en NAS med RAID fungerar. Du kan inte använda en disk som cache.
Du får använda DX513 som lagring och köra primära enheten som dump.
https://www.synology.com/sv-se/support/raid_calculator

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DU får läsa det här:
http://ukdl.synology.com/download/Document/WhitePaper/Synolog...
Jag hade tydligen fel med 1xSSD som cache.. Behöver tydligen ha 2xSSD.

Jag är inte intresserad av 2 lådor. Jag vill gärna ha en bara.

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Nej jag behöver inte läsa det där. Den funktionaliteten är inte särskilt användbar och speciellt inte i ditt fall. Men vill du har marginell prestandaförbättring och slösa bort två slots så visst.
Räkna med en prislapp på ca 19500 med DS1813+, 4x5TB WDRED RAID 5+2x512SSD.
Då har du ingen backup ändå.

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All right, I will take English now as I am not that great in Swedish. I do not your problem is Bozzeta but I am here to understand NAS and be able to purchase a NAS system that will fulfill my requirements.

First, you rudely point out that I do not understand NAS (not saying that I do fully but it was uncalled for) and how the RAID works by saying that Disk cannot be used as cache. Well, I proved you are wrong and got you a link that explains it is doable. Later you says you do not need to read it and SSD cache functionality is not required in my case. If you do not want to explain yourself why, then please do not reply back. Your comments does not help me as you just tell me what to get but do not explain why.

As I stated, I need NAS that can do 100 Mbytes read and write simultaneously. I will be using torrent program to download at 80-100 Mbytes/s which from what I have understood is very demanding hence other have written that writing to a SSD is a good idea in the start and then move it to the NAS. Your focus has been entirely on a good backup hence you focus on more boxes but I do not have the luxury of more space hence I did not like the idea. One of my requirement was backup but I guess a better word would have been redundancy. I meant if one of the disk dies or gives problem then I do not loose all my data.

If you indeed want to help me Bozzeta, then give me reasons behind your choices so I can understand otherwise the information does not really help me. I am not writing this to pick a fight with you but hoping that you understand in which you can provide me help if you are interested in it.

My question to everyone is:
Can SD1513+ with 4x WD REd TB give me simultaneously 100 Mbytes/s write and read?
If not, can SSD cache help me with that?

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Id say that you should buy a basic computer and build your own NAS with FreeNas as your OS. Regardless of what you do there is a possibility that you will be limited by your network when doing 100MB both ways at the same time but with your handpicked hardware you can at least make it easier.

With such large Array as 14TB you need Raid6 or Raidz2 to avoid problems during resyncs.

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I was looking at FreeNas too. It was quite interesting. As far as I have understood, you need to have parts that is supported by FreeNas. I was hoping someone who have had experience with NAS knows if I can get 100Mbytes/s both ways but maybe I should purchase HDDs and put in my current PC with software raid. From there I can see the performance. Do you have any link or know what hardware to get that might fulfill my requirements if I wanted to build a computer for FreeNas?

If I understood correctly, 2 of the HDDs will be used for parity meaning I will not be able to use 2 HDD storage space compared to 1 HDD storage space (Raid 5), right?

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Actually, as long as you run x86 products you are good to go. What you should look for is ECC ram which is only a few SEK more expensive than non ECC. The problem is not to get 100MB/sec due to your harddrives, I push about 800MB/sec at home, but due to your network and network card.

Software Raid, while its cheap, safe and easy to migrate, its performance with parity is below acceptable. I run a testserver at home with Windows Storage Spaces and parity and get about 25MB sec write performance while reads are up in the low 300s. My Adaptec 5805 card goes around said 800MB/sec in both reads and writes but also costs a bit more.

Check this link for performance, page 20
http://globalsp.ts.fujitsu.com/dmsp/Publications/public/wp-wi...

The one thing you need with FreeNas is RAM. Minimum would be 8GB RAM for a home server or with few users.
My earlier FreeNas ran with 16 2TB disks in Raidz2 and 8gb RAM and performance was nice, easily saturated a gbit- line but more ram would give better performance without a doubt. With FreeNas you could make a single disk your download disk and leave the others to do nothing until needed, torrents can be a bit of a pain with its small loose files and you don't necessarily need ten drives for that. FreeNas also has a built in torrent client, works much like an app in your phone to be honest.

Raid5 would be the equivalent of Raidz1 and Raid6 would transform into Raidz2 - both are easily set up in FreeNas through a 1-2-3 method.

Here you can read about why arrays over 12TB may have problems with Raid5 and why you should avoid it.
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/storage/why-raid-5-stops-working-in...
Put it simply, when a disk dies (and it will) you want to rebuild as soon as possible and without any hassle. With raid5 your rebuild (or resilver with FreeNas) may stop due to a fault your controller cant fix and you will loose all your data due to it - you need a sixth drive to read parity from.

My suggestion to you would be to learn FreeNas, you will get much better overall performance than any other NAS around. Make sure both your router and network card support 1000Mbit with full duplex and that your router support many connections at the same time. Netgear WINDR3700 would probably be a safe bet for you, costs around 800SEK (or its updated version as of today). Then I would aim for an Intel I3 system or AMD AM3+ system with many cores. The latter would perform better but use more electricity - both are cheap though - and get as much ECC RAM as you can afford.

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I actually have a system which has not compatibility with ECC. Does it have to be ECC?

When it comes to Network Card and router, I have achieved 930 MBIT at bredbandskollen so the inbuilt NIC on Asus P8Z77-V Deluxe is good. The router I am using is Nighthawk Netgear R7000.

What HW Raid do you recommend me to get?

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No it doesn't have to be - I didn't use it myself but I was in the same situation when I built my system. For a new build though I would have gone with ECC just because its not more than noticeable more expensive.

I think you did 930Mbit download, but I think you asked for both upload and download at the same time - which may or may not be the same thing.

Regarding HW-raid, I've only used Adaptecs (5805 model) card and they work flawlessy. There are said that other controllers perform better but costs more and there are controllers, primarly from LSI, that perform worse but also costs less.

Seeing as FreeNas is free, I'd try that first - if its not up to your expectations I'd say go hardware raid.

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Skrivet av Damodred:

Actually, as long as you run x86 products you are good to go. What you should look for is ECC ram which is only a few SEK more expensive than non ECC. The problem is not to get 100MB/sec due to your harddrives, I push about 800MB/sec at home, but due to your network and network card.

Software Raid, while its cheap, safe and easy to migrate, its performance with parity is below acceptable. I run a testserver at home with Windows Storage Spaces and parity and get about 25MB sec write performance while reads are up in the low 300s. My Adaptec 5805 card goes around said 800MB/sec in both reads and writes but also costs a bit more.

Check this link for performance, page 20
http://globalsp.ts.fujitsu.com/dmsp/Publications/public/wp-wi...

The one thing you need with FreeNas is RAM. Minimum would be 8GB RAM for a home server or with few users.
My earlier FreeNas ran with 16 2TB disks in Raidz2 and 8gb RAM and performance was nice, easily saturated a gbit- line but more ram would give better performance without a doubt. With FreeNas you could make a single disk your download disk and leave the others to do nothing until needed, torrents can be a bit of a pain with its small loose files and you don't necessarily need ten drives for that. FreeNas also has a built in torrent client, works much like an app in your phone to be honest.

Raid5 would be the equivalent of Raidz1 and Raid6 would transform into Raidz2 - both are easily set up in FreeNas through a 1-2-3 method.

Here you can read about why arrays over 12TB may have problems with Raid5 and why you should avoid it.
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/storage/why-raid-5-stops-working-in...
Put it simply, when a disk dies (and it will) you want to rebuild as soon as possible and without any hassle. With raid5 your rebuild (or resilver with FreeNas) may stop due to a fault your controller cant fix and you will loose all your data due to it - you need a sixth drive to read parity from.

My suggestion to you would be to learn FreeNas, you will get much better overall performance than any other NAS around. Make sure both your router and network card support 1000Mbit with full duplex and that your router support many connections at the same time. Netgear WINDR3700 would probably be a safe bet for you, costs around 800SEK (or its updated version as of today). Then I would aim for an Intel I3 system or AMD AM3+ system with many cores. The latter would perform better but use more electricity - both are cheap though - and get as much ECC RAM as you can afford.

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Windows Storage Spaces are not a good measurement for the performance of software raid in general. Storage Spaces are known for terrible write performance.

I'd go for Xpenology (Synology DSM for x86 = "Hackology"), but that's just me. I can't get along with FreeNAS, not saying it's a bad product, just that it's nothing for me.

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From what I've seen its the opposite, its much improved compared to software raid in Windows 7 or Server versions, which the Fujitsu link also states - and its also much better than software raid5 in Windows Server, but compared to hardware raid or ZFS, no its not as good performance wise but its also important to remember that Storage Spaces is much younger than its competitors, ZFS for example have had the time to work out its quirks and fix many problems.

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With Haswell even the cheapest CPU support ECC, even Intel Celeron G1610.
All you have to combine it with is a mainboard that can handle ECC, the ones with C200 chipset.

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@Micke O: Thanks, I was not aware of Xpenology. I will have to read up on that now. Is there any specific reason why you chose Xpenology over FreeNAS? I even Heard there is a old version called NAS4Free which some prefer over FReeNAS.

@Damodred: Nighthawk was the best router when it comes to performance according to http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/lanwan/router-charts/bar/76-to... . It seems I will be able to get around 1300Mbps so my limiation on NAS shall be 1300 Mbps.
I will try with software raid then first.

Now my plans are to wait to use my current PC as server in the future (Mid 2015). As I am not in a hurry, I will try to create a RAID on windows 7 and use it as network drive. Meanwhile, I will be Reading up on these different type of NAS OS to understand about it. Is it possible to have NAS like functionality installed on the same system where I game and do other stuff? My current system specs:

HAF X
Core i5 2500K
8gb 1866 MHZ DDR2
ATI HD 7970 GHz
Asus P8Z77-V Deluxe

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Skrivet av Xnor:

@Damodred: Nighthawk was the best router when it comes to performance according to http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/lanwan/router-charts/bar/76-to... . It seems I will be able to get around 1300Mbps so my limiation on NAS shall be 1300 Mbps.

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Which means, for example, a maximum of 650Mbit/650Mbit dl/ul.

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Skrivet av simonw:

Which means, for example, a maximum of 650Mbit/650Mbit dl/ul.

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The use cases are listed below taking in account of the router limitation:

100% DL 930 Mbps 0% UL 0 Mbps
50% DL 650 Mbps 50% UL 650 Mbps
0% DL 0 Mbps 100% UL 930 Mbps.

The time where 100% Dl or 100% UL is what I am pretty aware that NAS will be able to handle. But when it comes to 50/50 650 Mbps both ways then I am not quite certain. I have already ordered 2xWD red 6 TB so I can test it. At this moment I am thinking of using Raid 1 for this test. I will order 2x more in the future for raid 6 etc.

Thank you for helping me out everyone.

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Skrivet av Xnor:

@Micke O: Thanks, I was not aware of Xpenology. I will have to read up on that now. Is there any specific reason why you chose Xpenology over FreeNAS? I even Heard there is a old version called NAS4Free which some prefer over FReeNAS.

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Yes, very easy management (DSM) of software raid. Unfortunately it doesn't give you the parity you can get with ZFS but I think the risk that I mess up Freenas is a bigger problem than possible corruption of some files on my NAS. I do have an offsite backup and the files aren't that important. I also like the fact that I can grow the volume with one disk at a time (although it takes forever to add a disk) or just swap one disk at a time for a bigger one.

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Skrivet av Xnor:

@Micke O: Thanks, I was not aware of Xpenology. I will have to read up on that now. Is there any specific reason why you chose Xpenology over FreeNAS? I even Heard there is a old version called NAS4Free which some prefer over FReeNAS.

@Damodred: Nighthawk was the best router when it comes to performance according to http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/lanwan/router-charts/bar/76-to... . It seems I will be able to get around 1300Mbps so my limiation on NAS shall be 1300 Mbps.
I will try with software raid then first.

Now my plans are to wait to use my current PC as server in the future (Mid 2015). As I am not in a hurry, I will try to create a RAID on windows 7 and use it as network drive. Meanwhile, I will be Reading up on these different type of NAS OS to understand about it. Is it possible to have NAS like functionality installed on the same system where I game and do other stuff? My current system specs:

HAF X
Core i5 2500K
8gb 1866 MHZ DDR2
ATI HD 7970 GHz
Asus P8Z77-V Deluxe

Gå till inlägget

Sure, a simple network share would suffice for you.

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