http://teamicogamers.blogspot.com/2009/07/dreams-about-realit...
Dreams about Reality - Fumito Ueda's Legacy
Posted by Redmond
Marcus translated for us this interview with Fumito Ueda by Swedish magazine LEVEL.
Written by: Thomas Wiborgh
Interview by: Fredrik Schaufelberger
Translated into English by: Marcus
Fumito Ueda creates the most beautiful of fantasy worlds, though what he struggles for is to create something that resembles our everyday reality.
He wants to leave something for future generations but doesn't want to see his games in a museum.
He prefers to stay working at his desk but gives LEVEL a chance to get to know one of the modern gaming-world's most original designers a little better.
Ueda looks a little lost.
He's once again the focus of attention without necessarily wanting to be so. The shy game designer seems to be caught between the will to explain when everybody misunderstands him and the will to just stay in his Tokyo office and let his games speak for themselves. His face is almost totaly free from signs that reveal his allnighters and the fact that he is soon to turn 40. His apperance is more like that of a young boy than a middleaged man.
Not since Shigeru Miyamoto gave interviews at ETCS 1998 at the age of 45, dressed in a colourful red t-shirt and a bright yellow plastic watch has somebody impersonated his own games so well.
Fumito Ueda always speaks in Japanese and with a calm thoughtful voice even though he clearly understands English as he from time to time stops his interpreter and corrects him when he is not satisfied with the translation.
When we meet him it's only days after the "Project TRICO" leak and while he doesn't comment on the game we soon understand what he means when he tells us that the new game lends inspiration from of his old school projects.
With a nostalgic smile on his lips he talks about how he filled an aquarium with sand and put an airpump at the bottom of it. A couple of meters away he put a big red button and encouraged people to get involved with his project. When the button was pressed the pump shot small bursts of sand in random directions and made the impression that something was living under the sand in the aquarium.
Ueda called this installation "The cat under the sand", and with this he wanted to make people curious and surprised. These are themes that have followed him from being a student to becoming an internationally acclaimed designer.
- My deepest hope is to entertain people. I know a lot of people point out how emotional my games are, but the way I see it I get to players' hearts by pulling their emotional strings, to make a person cry is never the goal but if I create an entertaining experience by using that tool I feel that I have succeded.
With the scenes from The Last Guardian fresh in our memory, it doesn't take much to see the connection to his earlier games, namely the relationship between someone weak and something strong. He seems more interested in the dynamics of two different creatures than any other game creator, from the way they have different basic conditions to the way they have to aid each other. It's also an interesting contrast to the rest of the gaming industry where games tend to circle around a physically or psychologically strong and powerful main character who is ready to carry the world's fate on their shoulders.
- One of the main reasons why I decide to design my games this way is because of the underlying game mechanics. Ico needed to be weak and the protagonst in Shadow of the Colossus too. Otherwise as a gamer you wouldn't identify yourself with them. It's also about credibility towards the puzzles and game world. A weak character makes easy looking puzzles work as they feel consistent. A powerful character could just beat the colossi with raw power, as you can imagine. There is of course something aesthetically appealing in a weak character in an adventure game, but it's also about me getting into the mechanics in a different way and therefore needing different tools.
It's an answer that would surprise most people who thought ICO and Shadow of the Colossus were aesthetic perfections. But it's also an answer that makes perfect sense when thinking of what he often talks about - namely realism.
The fact that his games look and feel the way they do perhaps comes from that he works so hard to hide the underlying mechanics of the games.
- I always want to use the full technical potential. Even before we start developing our games I try to predict how close to reality we can come, and then start working from that point. Reality is actually the key point. After we come to a conclusion regarding that we start deciding what type of game we are making and how it should look.
He laughs and seems to have found a new idea.
- I both hate and love the technical limitations. It's kind of a Catch-22 for me. If we don't have any limit to work from, it becomes hard to make anything good out of an idea. But if we on the other hand have a very distinct technical limit it's impossible to go beyond it. It will put the bar in a certain place without any way to raise it. It's thanks to that my games have a very special aesthetic profile. It's a way to make the player forget about technical limitations and focus on the gaming experience. If a player sees a beautiful landcape or pretty light effects that's probably what he will remember and not the bad texture next to it.
That the reason Ueda's games look so beautiful is because he is trying to make them look like our own (often grey) reality may seem strange. Maybe he is seeing something most people don't. His vision is good and so is his hearing.
Ueda talks about why he left ICO with almost no music at all, and instead focused on ambient soundscapes. It wasn't an active choice but rather something that came naturally. He asked Oshima, his composer, to try and make music that would fit every part of the game. It ended up being a heartbreaking soundtrack full of emotional strings and pianos. Ueda listened to the first track but felt that it somehow took away much of the illusion of strange reality he had been trying to create with the graphics. Ueda asked her to take away that track and instead replace it with naturally occuring sounds. History repeated itself and the first time Ueda played through the whole game he realised there was no music left. He became surprised because he had thought that at least half of the soundtrack was kept, but he trusted his gut feeling and kept his silent game as he felt that the game unconsciously told him it wanted to be that way.
- I could talk about realism here too, but instead I choose to call the sounds natural. For me they are just natural, nothing to notice, if you stood alone out in a giant forest you would hear the same sounds we put in ICO. Calm, wide, open landscapes like the ones in our games sound just like that. So why force something else into the soundtrack?
Ueda patiently explains that he doesn't talk about realism in the traditional sense, He is more than aware of the shadow creatures and supernatural events that occur in his games.
- If people don't believe what I'm trying to tell there is no need to tell it at all.
ico
Freedom and Theft
Something that kind of goes in the opposite direction to the ambition of reality is the fact that Ueda has created his own languages in his games. And The Last Guardian doesn't sem to be any different.
- A made-up language gives us freedom. I think that people can more easily identify with something he or she is interpreting themselves, but most of all it's about freedom in our development of the game. A real language creates invisible barriers for developers as real life voice acting is hard to change and replace. Most developers stay in that situation but I want to have as much freedom as possible. If we feel that something should be changed in the last minute, we have the possibility to do that. In ICO we actually made changes to the gold master just before mass production.
Fumito Ueda's well-known perfectionism shows itself once more. He talks about his inspirations and that his will to strive for fulfillment often makes it hard to enjoy culture.
- Inspiration comes from music, books and movies, but more than anything it derives from games. I play a lot of games and always look at them with a critical point of view. In the middle of a death-scene I can stop and think "That was a good idea but I could change it like this, correct that and make it much better."
One example is a little bit surprising - Grand Theft Auto 4. He talks about the biggest problem with that game being the lack of original game elements. The graphics are impressive but not the basic foundation which is just like the earlier versions. After making it clear that one of the last year's most beloved games was boring he continues to the next one. When we ask him if he had played Super Mario Galaxy - since it has a level that is a clear tribute to Shadow of the Colossus - he shows us a shy smile.
- Of course I have played it, I couldn't resist after hearing that Miyamoto-san was inspired by me. But I have to say that I had expected a little more. That particular level (and the rest of the game) wasn't as entertaining as it could have been. I think the press and the fans made too much of a fuss about him (Miyamoto) borrowing from me. And the atmosphere on the internet became a little heavy. What I'm critical against isn't the fact that they borrowed something that actually isn't even originally from me, but the fact that they didn't make anything more interesting out of it.
shadow of the colossus
Impossible Expectations
To say that the expectations of The Last Guardian are staggering is hardly an exaggeration. He expresses a frustration that the press and fans make such a big thing out of, and find such pretention in his simple fantasy worlds. They are hailed and made out to be something they aren't, and never was intended to be. The silent relationship between Ico and Yorda was interpreted as a symbol of the problems with communication in modern society.
- We built the game around the concept of "holding hands."
He smiles.
- That's all there is to it, thats why Ico and Yorda don't speak. If they had been speaking the whole game mechanic would have been unnecessary, instead they communicate using the only way they know of, physically. The special language in ICO didn't make it into the game until the very last moment. At first, the plan was to make Yorda totally mute.
ICO was subtitled in the PAL version and if you played it again after completing it once, the symbols that represented their language were replaced by English text. This gave the game depth and clarity, but also robbed the game of some of its mystery.
When Ueda hears that we have played the PAL version he asks us how we liked it. He starts talking about the Japanese tradition to write everything out on screen with subtitles, something that is common in Japanese game shows and video games, and he comes to the conclusion that it was a very Japanese thing even in ICO. Shadow of the Colossus was also developed with the Japanese market in mind.
ICO was made with the huge PlayStation player-base in mind but ended up being released on the PS2, and after rather poor sales, Shadow of the Colossus was decided to be developed differently. In ICO it was important for everybody to identify with the characters, but Shadow of the Colossus was made for the hardcore players since those where the only ones who actually bought and liked ICO.
- We made the game for people like me, who love to play games, and that made Shadow of the Colossus a little more advanced than ICO. Every aspect of the game was raised to a new level and that unfortunately made the game selective and hard to get a grip on.
Fumito Ueda tells us that he feels just like any other hardcore gamer out there, but it's hard to think of this superfamous game developer as a regular hardcore game fan. He goes on and talks about how he gets hyped over upcoming games and makes countdowns and surfs international webshops to import games. He even takes days off from developing just to play new games.
toriko the last guardian
From Colossi to Kittens
Ueda keeps talking about Shadow of the Colossus, what he has described as a game full of compromisation. Because he can't talk about The Last Guardian directly everything he says becomes small clues and hints to what the game might actually be like.
- Riding Agro is something I have spent much time thinking about, I wanted to add enemies but felt it would become too much like other games and didn't want to do that. Today I think that the segments between the colossi feel like they are missing something, not enemies, but something else. Unlike what has been criticized though, I really like the long rides on Agro. They give the feeling of searching for something, if the search didn't take time and effort, finding the colossi wouldn't feel so rewarding.
Even though interviews with Ueda often end up in less than romantic rambling about game mechanics his games are always used in debates whether or not games can be seen as an art form.
- It's unbelievably honouring to hear my games being talked about as being art. I'v heard that you have a deeper game research in Europe. And nothing would make me happier than to hold a speech on the subject for those who concentrate on my games. I'm thinking of a university researcher who made a long document about Shadow of the Colossus. It was a 60 page long document about a game starring a boy riding around on his horse, fighting colossi to resurrect his loved one. Sixty pages about that seems a lot if you ask me, but I'm very honoured!
My intentions are never to make games that are art, It all comes from my background as an artist and my will to create things that I think are beautiful. The goal is to make games that are fun, entertaining and interesting to play. If people think that my natural style is art then I take that as a huge compliment but it isn't anything I'm aiming for.
It's easy to believe everything that Ueda says when you watch the trailer for The Last Guardian, everything looks so natural. the mythological creature (a cross between cat and bird as Ueda himself says) plays the role of the strong even though it seems young, maybe it's just a baby in need of constant care and guidance? It's a relationship somewhere between ICO and Shadow of the Colossus.
- To leave something to future generations would feel great. But I don't want my games to end up in a museum. I'd rather see that someone in a hundred years from now finds one of my games and play it. That way it's solid proof that I've made something timeless. and therefore lasting. That would be my legacy.
