Nyproduktion lägenhet med FTX ventilation systemet - kan inte söva pga ljudet

Trädvy Permalänk
Medlem
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Sep 2010
Skrivet av Savage_Gray:

A vaccum cleaner emmits aprox 70db of noice.
It is 16 times higher noise than 30db, stop comparing your FTX ventilation with a vacuum cleaner.

He said "someone above vacuuming" though. Which is no where near 70dB.
Maybe try reading it again.

Regarding the thread, in many cases the dB is not the main problem with noise but the frequency and/or consistency that makes it hard to sleep or focus.

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Aug 2020
Skrivet av ztenlund:

You need to exchange air in some way or another. If you do, that means heat is removed from the building in winter, which you then need to replace. This means energy use. What FTX does is use the old air to preheat the fresh air from outside. You can also use "frånluftsvärmepump", which instead heats water for the heating system with the energy from the air before it's expelled outside. This is typical in many new smaller houses.

Older houses with "självdrag" works on the principle that there's a difference in temperature between the inside and outside, creating a draft. Still, energy is removed when it's cold outside. The problem with this system is that ventilation increases when it's cold outside, removing more heat, and decreases when it's hot, not removing enough air. You'll therefore need to open the windows. Ventilation in bathrooms has a tendency to be somewhat too low for how much moisture is generated by modern behaviour. Especially in villas without "ångspärr" this can also lead to moisture getting into the attic and condensating onto the inside of the roof, in the long run resulting in mold.

Then you really need to check, since mechanical ventilation can be found in many old houses as well. Even those from the 50's may have had "mekanisk frånluft" since new, though usually only in bathrooms änd kitchens. Right now I'm in one from the 30's which has it as well. In this case the noise travels down the chimney to the fireplace, granted it's not in the bedroom. A much bigger problem is constant noise from neighbours, both in the house itself and neighbouring ones. People simply can't behave. They throw parties which lasts half the night, walk on their heels even in the middle of the night, slam doors, drawers etc shut which creates noise almost 24/7. I've completely given up. The only sure way to fall asleep is earplugs. I'd take slight noise from the ventilation system any day. To add to this there's a fountain which creates a lot of noise 13 hours per day more than half the year... You might be lucky, but don't count on older buildings being better just because they lack FTX. You might find they're worse if you're unlucky. Even if you're lucky someone might move out and another one move in... And one more thing: almost constant renovations, especially bathrooms, might drive you mad very quickly. This normally doesn't happen in new buildings at the same rate, since everything is new.

(And just now, someone slammed the door to the elevator shut with a loud bang... An elevator which had some worn out bearing earlier, creating noise for months on end every time someone used it, which of course, spread all along the elevator shaft.)

Thank you for sharing your experience with me.

Yes, definitely what you state contains lot of good inputs and I appreciate that somebody else is sensible to the noise matter.
There should be definitely more awareness about it.

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Aug 2020
Skrivet av xervz:

We also have an FTX system in our apartment, built 2011.
In my kitchen I have a switch where I can switch off the system or choose two different levels.
When I start my kitchen fan for example, this automatically sets the FTX system to maximum flow.
However, our FTX system is locally placed in our apartment with the fan and heat exchanger integrated into my kitchen fan above the stove.

When we first moved in we did not know we had to run the system at the medium flow. This resulted in a lot of silver fishes running around in our apartment. After some research I found out that silver fishes love moist and with no ventilation in our apartment we probably had to high humidity in the air. Newer buildings are so sealed that they allow no airflow in the apartment and instead the FTX system must be on.

Just a little heads-up in case you think of shutting down the system.

Thank you for your experience.

Did the switch allow you to shut down also the luftventiler in the bedrooms / other rooms?

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Aug 2020
Skrivet av ztenlund:

They can be louder than that, but the comparison was that a neighbour was vacuuming all the time, not that the vacuum was inside the original posters apartment. I.e. the comparison was regarding the character of the noise emitted.

Yes, exactly

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Aug 2020
Skrivet av backfeed:

A small comfort when it comes to FTX noise in a bedroom, is that the brain can adapt to it, it may take a while but it isn't impossible that you'll actually stop hearing it in the end.

I've experienced this myself, I had a rather loud FTX system in a bedroom which bothered me quite a lot, but I gradually heard it less and less over time and in the end (a couple of months, a year?) I couldn't hear it anymore.

That's a possibility yes, but I don't know if it applies to all humans to a degree that comes useful.
It would be great to adapt and stop hearing this woooooo!

I have a friend able to filter out specific voices - she just doesn't hear when her father screams.
The doctor told her it's a case of "selective hearing": the brain doesn't let in the sounds it wouldn't like.

Amazing skill

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Aug 2020
Skrivet av Nivity:

He said "someone above vacuuming" though. Which is no where near 70dB.
Maybe try reading it again.

Regarding the thread, in many cases the dB is not the main problem with noise but the frequency and/or consistency that makes it hard to sleep or focus.

Totally agree with your opinion.

During the day I open the balcony a bit, so that the woooooooo noise from the FTX system gets mixed with a more natural noise from outside, and it feels definitely better. The random people walking below or other noises disrupt the wooooo.

But of course, with the winter, I won't be able to keep the balcony open the whole day.

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Aug 2020
Skrivet av Jumpcut:

Ljudklass C är lägsta nivå enligt Boverkets byggriktlinjer (om man inte kan motivera ljudklass D pga. orealistiska kostnader etc). Man räknar där med att ca 20% av de boende kan uppleva ljud som lite störande, men inget allvarligt så som du upplever det.

Det normala idag i nyproducerade lägenheter är att man siktar på Ljudklass B. Min egen lägenhet (nyproduktion 2017) har ljudklass B som krav. Det var också tydligt när vi köpte lägenheten från Riksbyggen.

Eftersom jag sitter i styrelsen i min BRF så laddade jag nu ner vårt mätprotokoll från den akustikmätning som gjordes när huset var nytt. I sovrummen ligger vi på ett snitt på ca 24 dBA vilket då är klart godkänt i ljudklass B. 15-20 dBA är inte ens ett krav i bästa ljudklassen, ljudklass A.

Thank you for your contribution.

I don't expect the ljudklass B to be revolutionary compared to the ljudklass C if a ventilation system is still there,
but perhaps they take some extra care about that aspect? JM for example seems to be very proud of it, therefore if they use it for marketing reason, there should be a measurable improvement somehow.

But this is only guess work, I should enter into a ljudklass B apartment myself and try it out to have an opinion.

I don't know (yet) if Ryksbyggen in my area aims for ljudklass B or ljudklass C, but their apartments cost 30% more than mine and they have less features.
Could be that they ask more for the ljudklass B?

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Jul 2005
Skrivet av rvf:

Totally agree with your opinion.

During the day I open the balcony a bit, so that the woooooooo noise from the FTX system gets mixed with a more natural noise from outside, and it feels definitely better. The random people walking below or other noises disrupt the wooooo.

But of course, with the winter, I won't be able to keep the balcony open the whole day.

I can understand the frustration. My gut feeling is that a simple muffler would remove that kind of sound. It is probably high enough in frequency for the mufflers to effective at dampening. Usually they also make the sound more diffuse which makes it less intrusive.
I hope you can get these installed with a permit. I wouldn’t have had any doubts about installing them without permission either. You can usually remove the ventilation and insert the muffler instead since it is only a piece of “tube” though they would be visible. You might not need to install them anywhere but in the bedroom either so you don’t have to worry about mold and such.

Good luck!

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Aug 2020
Skrivet av Petterk:

Det är det här jag inte riktigt förstår. Ventilationen hör till föreningen och klarar kraven, och låter säkert mycket mindre än i många andra hus – så hur är det en fråga för Konsumentverket eller andra myndigheter? Huset har byggts åt föreningen och det finns avtal och försäkringar där mellan föreningen och byggherren.

Konsumentverket har information om dolda fel i bostadsrätt: https://www.hallakonsument.se/tips-for-olika-kop/kopa-och-hyr...

Problemet där är att akustikmätningar säkert gjorts och nya sådana inte kommer visa några skillnader. Så det kommer inte gå som dolt fel eller liknande, går givetvis att be de titta på ventilationssystemet ändå, men ljudnivån i sig är nog inget problem.

Första gången en bostadsrätt säljs är det dessutom föreningen som är avtalspart i köpavtalet. Även förhandsavtalet har föreningen som avtalspart formellt sett.

If you search in their forum for "nyproduktion", they state as follow:
https://www.hallakonsument.se/frageforum/r%c3%a4ttigheter-vid...

"När du köper en bostadsrätt gäller inte konsumentlagstiftningen, vilken vi arbetar med. Vi kan därför inte säga så mycket om dina rättigheter, men vi kan ge dig lite information om hur du kan gå vidare."

And they point you to the BRF.

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Aug 2020
Skrivet av Lovan:

I can understand the frustration. My gut feeling is that a simple muffler would remove that kind of sound. It is probably high enough in frequency for the mufflers to effective at dampening. Usually they also make the sound more diffuse which makes it less intrusive.
I hope you can get these installed with a permit. I wouldn’t have had any doubts about installing them without permission either. You can usually remove the ventilation and insert the muffler instead since it is only a piece of “tube” though they would be visible. You might not need to install them anywhere but in the bedroom either so you don’t have to worry about mold and such.

Good luck!

Thank you!

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Aug 2020
Skrivet av Marcusk:

If you haven't specified a sound level in your contract you can't expect better then the legally required minimum. If you wanted a silent apartment you should have written it in the contract.

Thank you for your answer.

Perhaps yes, perhaps not.

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Flen
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Jul 2001

@rvf: Ja, men ännu viktigare är att ventilationen inte är en del av avtalet mellan dig och föreningen. Hur bygget sker är avtalat mellan föreningen och byggherren och föreningen är ingen konsument (privatperson), så det är avtalslagen som gäller. När det gäller dig och föreningen så är det även köplagen som går in där, dolt fel behandlas av köplagen t.ex. Här är det som sagt inget som är del av lägenheten och du kan inte komma med några krav direkt på byggherren.

Som du ser på sidan jag länkade hänvisar de också till advokat vid dolt fel, det gör de för att det prövas i rätten om ni inte kommer överens. ARN provar fall när du själv bygger din bostad och alltså har husentreprenad för en villa, men här är det en föreningen som bygger bostaden rent kontraktsmässigt! ARN är hur som helst en rekommendation, även när det täcks av konsumenttjänstlagen så kan man få gå till domstol. Vet inte riktigt varför du skulle önska att det täcktes av konsumentskyddslagar. I ditt fall handlar det inte om något man kan få prisavdrag för eller dylikt heller, men som tidigare sagt du kan ändå kontakta de och kolla om de kan göra åtgärder.

När det gäller åtgärder tänk dock på att dessa inte ger massiva skillnader, utan är du ljudkänslig för att du mår dåligt, sover dåligt och så vidare så är det den biten du behöver jobba med och där du får massiva skillnader. Mår du bättre slipper du dessutom störa dig på alla ljud på arbetsplatsen, i matbutiken, på bussen o.s.v.

Trädvy Permalänk
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Linköping
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Apr 2003

Jag tyckte också att ventilationen i min FTX-lägenhet (byggår 2016) lät lite för mycket. Men det var enkelt fixat. Jag justerade ned fläkthastigheten via styrpanelen. Det räckte med några få procentenheter för att få det tyst och skönt.

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Trädvy Permalänk
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Maj 2009

@rvf: No the switch only controls the integrated fan and the speed of it.
If i turn it off, it will also turn of the ventilation to both my living room, bedroom and bathroom

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